Friday, 22 July 2005

More hassle in London

The BBC are now reporting that plain-clothed Police officers have shot and killed a man on the tube. One eyewitness suggests that the suspect was shot after being taken into custody, or at least after being apprehended, but that is unconfirmed at the moment. This incident happened at Stockwell which is near the scene of one of yesterday's attempted bombings.

16 careful considerations:

Elohimus Maximus said...

No voices are being heard here because you do not have the whole truth...join our church and you will have it/
The church of Jesus Christ of Even More Latter Day Saints

Trée said...

I'm with you nogbad. ;)

Kaylis and Gavin Hansen said...

hrm. how about think for yourself and you will have it.

Anyways I'm not near London and I deff. don't support what the terriosists are trying to do I just wanted to say that I'm impressed though with London people because they jumped right back on those busses and subways and I think that sends a clear message to the terroists that you guys are not afraid.

kat said...

I can't help wondering whether this was a deliberate act to show how things were going to be dealt with.

Nogbad said...

Elohimus - Hi, always nice to have some religious fundamentalism to brighten the day.

Trée - That's lovely! Where we going? :-)

Hiya Rachel - I think many people jumped back on the busses and the tube because it's the only way to get to work!

Kat - I think that as the pieces are slotted together we'll see that the guy shot on the tube had been followed after yesterday's attacks and that the police (?) shot him as a last resport having hoped to follow him to see where he led. Either way it's a new challenge to the security services to be dealing with suicide bombers and only time will tell how many of our civil liberties Blair and Co feel we'll have to sacrifice this time round.

Echo Mouse said...

My Mother almost had a cow about this. She thought perhaps the man was only running to catch his train!

Anyway, great sympathy, concern and admiration to you and fellow Britons from us in Canada. I can't imagine living with threat of bombs and really don't know how you manage it. Stay safe.

kat said...

I think that as the pieces are slotted together we'll see that the guy shot on the tube had been followed after yesterday's attacks and that the police (?) shot him as a last resport having hoped to follow him to see where he led

I so wish you had been right. Many mistakes are made but you can't release a dead man from custody.

Lobster Blogster said...

If I might interject here, speaking as a fake lobster, you've got to do a lot better than take the piss out of fake fundementalists. Pansying about "being not afraid" is fine for people who have nothing more to say than to deny their own feelings. Is anybody here taking their arguments here out into the real world?

Nogbad said...

I so wish you had been right. Many mistakes are made but you can't release a dead man from custody.

Sadly not. It certainly seems that another innocent has died as part of this recent criminal campaign.

Is anybody here taking their arguments here out into the real world?

I certainly am but I've chosen not to do so in any great detail on this blog. I'd be interested to hear, in real terms, how you think we can take these arguments out onto the wider world? (I happen to think that the web is a component of the "real" world).

kat said...

It certainly seems that another innocent has died as part of this recent criminal campaign.

......... but a shot to kill anything that moves too fast or looks a bit different just can't be right. The police are taking full responsiblity for this death.

Nogbad said...

......... but a shot to kill anything that moves too fast or looks a bit different just can't be right. The police are taking full responsiblity for this death.

I think the Police are in an unenviable position. Remember the Bourgass case where officers failed to adequately secure a suspect and he stabbed four officers, one of whom died.

In this instance it appears that they feared for their safety and that of those around them - it's difficult to see what other circumstances would justify discharging weapons in this way unless we believe that the UK has suddenly shifted to a state where armed police shoot first and ask questions later, there is little evidence of that is there?

And I read somewhere that the "shoot to kill" idea is inaccurate, the police in this country are trained to always shoot to kill - the curcumstances in which they are called upon to discharge their weapons are usually those in which other avenues have been exhausted.

I'm just very glad that we live in a country where any occasion upon which the police shoot anyone is investigated and we have so (relatively) few such events that they usually make national news and are subject to scrutiny.

kat said...

unless we believe that the UK has suddenly shifted to a state where armed police shoot first and ask questions later,


This is my fear and it may be answered over time. The fact remains that this man was innocent. The 'innocent until proved guilty ' is a complete farce and no longer / has never really applied. We are all seen as criminals.

Nogbad said...

The 'innocent until proved guilty ' is a complete farce and no longer / has never really applied. We are all seen as criminals.

I simply don't share that view - I think that if it was true we'd see far more deaths at the hands of the police and that isn't borne out by the facts is it?

kat said...

I am not on a police bashing mission. I am simply asking everyone to think about the way we regard and respect other people or peoples. I don't want a world where individuals are considered to be dispensable.
This was a mistake and I can accept that but as nation we will need to take full responsibility, for what happened and answer to the rest of the world. We can’t directly blame the terrorists for this. It happened because of our actions and/or reactions. We must learn from it. As a member of the public it is my responsibility to ask why and to say 'hang on' is this what we really want?

Jean Charles de Menezes mattered and he will show what we are all made of. He will show the world what and who we are.


I will leave it there because I am very saddened by this incident.

Lobster Blogster said...

Apologies to Nogbad. My earlier comments were not entirely directed at you, and I was angry when I wrote them. I'm afraid they look like quite an attack on you, and that was far from my intention.

Nogbad said...

No problem Lobster - no worries